Vox Day vs. Jordan Peterson, take 4

Vox Day continues ankle biting Jordan Peterson, writing:

You know I’ve said repeatedly that the philosophy Jordan Peterson is pushing is an evil one, and it is, and one aspect of that evil, one way that we know that it is wrong, is that he and Shapiro and all these other Fake Opposition members are saying “oh all that matters is the individual, all that matters is you, you should only pay attention to your own needs, your own standards, you’ve no right to take pride in your legacy, you have no responsibility to instill those traditions and values into your children.”

I think he’s putting words in Dr. Peterson’s mouth, attributing beliefs to him that aren’t true or that he never said or even implied. Despite his individualism, which I will admit at times is excessive, Dr. Peterson praises Western Civilization, such as in a video Dr Jordan Peterson – Western Civilization is a Shining Light in the World in which he says “the fundamentals assumptions of Western Civilization are valid.” So there is a balance between individualism and ‘the nation’, and Dr. Peterson understands this.

And of course because these people do not want to preserve the West, you know the people who think that, Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and the Weinsteins [...] They’re not Christian, they’re either neutral on Christianity or they’re anti-Christian, they don’t want to preserve the European nations – to the contrast they want to replace the European nations – and so the more that you understand this, the more you realize how evil these people are, how evil their objectives are.

As discussed a few days ago, they never branded themselves as exemplars of right-wing Christianity or white identity; it’s only because the media is so left-wing that they are portrayed as such. How Christian or Anglo-Saxon do you expect someone with a last name such as Weinstein or Shapiro to be? It’s like complaining that there aren’t enough white people at the NAAP meeting or something.

As said before, Dr. Peterson’s brand is not in jeopardy by being ‘exposed’ by Vox Day.

Those who have accomplished something as individuals feel no need to be proud of their race.

A man has more than a right, he has a responsibility to be proud of his race just as he should be proud of his military unit, his alma mater, or his soccer club, even before he has managed to meaningfully contribute to it or not. Indeed, why would a member of any group be moved to support or extend or contribute to it if one did not feel a sense of pride in belonging to it? These are the petty words of a very small man who has never worn a uniform of any kind, who has never walked into a stadium with the eyes of thousands of spectators upon him, knowing full well that he was not there to represent himself, but rather, all of those whom the colors he was wearing represented.

I think what me means is, its hard to feel a sense of accomplishment over something that you didn’t earn. One does not earn their skin color. But then why does Vox Day care so much about his IQ but talks much less about his race or his skin color? I never seen him once proudly proclaim “I am white” or “I am three standard deviations of whiteness.” My take is, his IQ, which he says is 150, is much more exclusive than being one of 1 billion or so white people. That sorta proves Dr. Peterson’s point. An accomplishment is something that is distinguishes an individual from everyone else. Just being white is not good enough. Although one does not ‘accomplish’ a high IQ, it is still exclusive.

Jordan Peterson is a filthy liar – an absolutely shameless liar – and what passes for his “wisdom” doesn’t even rise to the level of that demonstrated by atheist Chinese communists. Most of the men and women of accomplishment I have known are proud of their race, proud of their nation, proud of their state, and proud of their tribe. Indeed, they often appeal to that pride in order to inspire their children and grandchildren to behave in a manner that is worthy of their race, nation, state, and tribe.

I Don’t think Vox understands what the word ‘liar’ means. A liar is someone who says something in order to intentionally mislead or something that he knows is wrong. Dr. Peterson may be wrong or mislead, but he is not lying. When liberals say “Trump is a liar,” the perfect response is to ask “how so,” and most will freeze like deer in headlights. They cannot find an example. Even if they say “Trump is racist,” which even if we pretend he is, is still not a lie. If I proclaim that western civilization is overrated, I am probably wrong, but I’m not lying, because what I’m saying is merely an opinion. Bill Clinton, however, lied, because he knowingly denied something that was objectivity true.

I agree with Vox that Jordan Peterson should engage in more debate with those who disagree with him and are at his intellectual level, than ‘soft’ SJW targets. But the problem is the payoff for Dr. Peterson is asymmetric. His audience is in the hundreds of thousands, whereas guys like Vox Day have much smaller numbers, so Dr. Peterson has little to gain in terms of audience and more to lose.

A lot of young people who grew up in secular or non-religious households, or for whatever reason are irreligious, can relate to Dr. Peterson’s and Ben Shapiro’s secularized brand conservatism. IMHO, religion is not necessary to be of the ‘right’; indeed, one need not be religious to see the threat of Islam, to oppose political correctness, to oppose illegal immigration, to support private property, to support rule of law, etc. Morality does not need to be codified in scriptures, but is understood on a more pragmatic and empirical level. Why should one not steal? Because it’s ethically and morally wrong, true, but also due to the real possibly of retaliation. Conflict avoidance is hard-wired, so most humans will behave in such a manner that minimizes conflict, hence pain and fear, due to instinct, not because of a book. People also learn through observation. When one observes that thieves are punished or even killed, then one quickly gets the message not to steal. Some people will defy such conventions, but natural law does not stipulate how much punishment is necessary for retribution. Divine law can be thought as mechanism for regulating human behavior, that supersedes the will of any man.

Vox Day keeps saying Jordan Peterson is a socialist, a feminist, a liberal, etc., by alluding to Dr. Peterson’s first book, Maps of Meaning. However Dr. Peterson began writing Maps in the 80′s and it was not published until 1995. It’s not uncommon for people’s political and ideological views to change over such long periods. It’s not like the Jordan Peterson of today is the same as 30 years ago. Dr. Peterson is anti-leftist, which does not mean conservative. Some anti-leftists are conservatives, but not all. That seems to be Vox’s hangup. Being anti-leftist is not the same as being anti-liberal or pro-conservative or right-wing.